Design rvs for sale in Arizona

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2019 Grand Design Reflection 303RLS

2019 Grand Design Reflection 303RLS

$34,900

Prescott, Arizona

Year 2019

Make Grand Design Reflection

Model 303RLS

Category Fifth Wheel

Length 32

Posted Over 1 Month

Stock #393895 2019 Grand Design Reflection 303RLS has 3 slides making lots of space inside. If you are in the market for a fifth wheel, look no further than this 2019 Reflection 303RLS, priced right at $34,900.This Fifth Wheel is located in Prescott, Arizona and is in good condition. This is a brand new listing, just on the market this week. Please submit all reasonable offers. You have questions? We have answers. Call us at (941) 200-1353 to discuss this RV. Selling your RV has never been easier. At Pop RVs, we literally sell thousands of units every year all over the country. Call (855) 273-7188 and we'll get started selling your RV today.

2022 Grand Design Momentum 395MSR

2022 Grand Design Momentum 395MSR

$88,900

Chino Valley, Arizona

Year 2022

Make Grand Design Momentum

Model 395MSR

Category Fifth Wheel

Length 39

Posted Over 1 Month

This 2022 Momentum (by Grand Design( 395MSR is in very good condition according to the seller. Seller indicated all systems and equipment operate as designed. There is some damage to the fender area of the door side of the trailer. Pop encourages buyers to either personally inspect the RV or hire a third party to complete a thorough inspection. Stock #411659 Fully loaded 395MSR! Washer & dryer! Modified to increase storage! The 2022 Momentum (by Grand Design) 395MSR is a luxurious fifth-wheel toy hauler designed for adventurers who demand both comfort and utility. This model blends rugged durability with high-end features, making it perfect for those who enjoy off-the-grid travel while also appreciating modern comforts. Upon stepping inside, you're immediately greeted by a spacious, open-concept living area. The interior features premium finishes with contemporary dcor, including plush seating and a well-appointed kitchen that is both stylish and functional. The kitchen boasts stainless steel appliances, a large island with ample counter space, and plenty of storage, making it ideal for extended trips. The living space also features large windows that allow natural light to flood the room, enhancing the feeling of openness. The entertainment center includes a large flat-screen TV, premium sound system, and cozy seating for gatherings or relaxation after a day of adventure. The Momentum 395MSR stands out with its impressive garage area, which is both a functional space for storing toys and a versatile area for additional sleeping arrangements. The garage features an optional loft and can be transformed into an extra living or sleeping space. The rear ramp door makes it easy to load and unload vehicles, and the garage also includes built-in tie-downs to secure your gear. One of the key highlights is the expansive master suite, which provides a quiet, private retreat with a king-sized bed, ample closet space, and a dedicated bathroom with a full-sized shower, making it easy to feel right at home no matter where you are. The combination of comfort, style, and functionality ensures a superior experience whether you're out on the road or parked at your destination. Outside, the 395MSR features robust construction built to withstand the elements, with a full-length awning, outdoor speakers, and additional storage compartments for gear. The 2022 Momentum toy hauler is equipped with upgraded suspension and large tires designed for smooth towing, whether you're navigating highways or venturing off-road. The 2022 Momentum 395MSR by Grand Design is the ultimate blend of luxury, convenience, and utility, ideal for RVers looking for adventure without compromising on comfort. This listing is new to market. Any reasonable offer may be accepted. Submit an offer today! You have questions? We have answers. Call us at (941) 200-1353 to discuss this RV. Selling your RV has never been easier. At Pop RVs, we literally sell thousands of units every year all over the country. Call (855) 273-7188 and we'll get started selling your RV today.

2022 Grand Design Imagine 22MLE

2022 Grand Design Imagine 22MLE

$29,000

Surprise, Arizona

Year 2022

Make Grand Design Imagine

Model 22MLE

Category Travel Trailer

Length 22

Posted Over 1 Month

Stock #439330 2022 IMAGINE 22MLE!! ORIGINAL OWNER!! READY TO HIT THE OPEN ROAD!! If you are in the market for a travel trailer, look no further than this 2022 Imagine 22MLE, priced right at $29,000. Non-smoking and pet-free. This Travel Trailer is located in Surprise, Arizona and is in good condition. This listing has now been on the market 30 days. If you are thinking of making an offer, go ahead and submit it today! Let's make a deal! You have questions? We have answers. Call us at (941) 200-1353 to discuss this RV. Selling your RV has never been easier. At Pop RVs, we literally sell thousands of units every year all over the country. Call (855) 273-7188 and we'll get started selling your RV today.

2021 Grand Design Solitude 345-GKR

2021 Grand Design Solitude 345-GKR

$56,000

Buckeye, Arizona

Year 2021

Make Grand Design Solitude

Model 345-GKR

Category Fifth Wheel

Length 34

Posted Over 1 Month

Stock #430963 2021 GRAND DESIGN SOLITUDE. READY FOR THE NEXT ADVENTURE. If you are in the market for a fifth wheel, look no further than this 2021 Solitude 345-GKR, priced right at $56,000. Non-smoking. This Fifth Wheel is located in Buckeye, Arizona and is in good condition. This listing has now been on the market 30 days. If you are thinking of making an offer, go ahead and submit it today! Let's make a deal! You have questions? We have answers. Call us at (941) 200-1353 to discuss this RV. Selling your RV has never been easier. At Pop RVs, we literally sell thousands of units every year all over the country. Call (855) 273-7188 and we'll get started selling your RV today.

2023 Grand Design Momentum 315G

2023 Grand Design Momentum 315G

$87,300

Surprise, Arizona

Year 2023

Make Grand Design Momentum

Model 315G

Category Fifth Wheel

Length 31

Posted Over 1 Month

2023 Grand Design Momentum 315G Toy Hauler is clean for its age, has a 19-foot garage, and will fit any side-by-side on the market. There are two 30 gallon utility tanks for your toys that are working. Stock #438535 2023 Momentum 315G by Grand Design fifth wheel toy hauler! The 2023 Momentum 315G fifth-wheel Toy Hauler is a great option for families who want to take short trips and haul a couple of toys. Its 22' garage provides plenty of storage area. The flip-up couch allows for more seating when needed. The corner kitchen design is excellent, creates more space, and is still very operational for its build-out. The front bedroom has a queen-size bed. The full bathroom is between the bedroom and kitchen, which allows all parties to access it with ease. This is a fun family trailer. The two swivel rockers can be moved around to create more seating or storage space. Plenty of basement storage! This listing has now been on the market 30 days. If you are thinking of making an offer, go ahead and submit it today! Let's make a deal! Reason for selling is getting another larger unit!. You have questions? We have answers. Call us at (941) 200-1353 to discuss this RV. Selling your RV has never been easier. At Pop RVs, we literally sell thousands of units every year all over the country. Call (855) 273-7188 and we'll get started selling your RV today. Reason for selling is getting another larger unit!.

2024 Grand Design Imagine XLS 22MLE

2024 Grand Design Imagine XLS 22MLE

$38,880

Tucson, Arizona

Year 2024

Make Grand Design Imagine

Model XLS 22MLE

Category Travel Trailer

Length 22

Posted Over 1 Month

This 2024 Imagine XLS 22MLE travel trailer, by Grand Design, is fully operational. All mechanical, plumbing, and electrical systems are operational. Exterior surfaces are clean and free of dents or scratches. Interior surfaces show little to no wear. This RV has been used for four trips over 2800 miles. The tires are original. Stock #435686 Very gently used Imagine XLS 22MLE by Grand Design travel trailer If you are in the market for a travel trailer, look no further than this 2024 Imagine XLS 22MLE, just reduced to $38,880. Non-smoking. This Travel Trailer is located in Tucson, Arizona and is in great condition. This is a brand new listing, just on the market this week. Please submit all reasonable offers. Reason for selling is no longer using.. You have questions? We have answers. Call us at (941) 200-1353 to discuss this RV. Selling your RV has never been easier. At Pop RVs, we literally sell thousands of units every year all over the country. Call (855) 273-7188 and we'll get started selling your RV today. Reason for selling is no longer using..

2022 Grand Design Momentum 376THS

2022 Grand Design Momentum 376THS

$72,500

Tucson, Arizona

Year 2022

Make Grand Design Momentum

Model 376THS

Category Fifth Wheel

Length 37

Posted Over 1 Month

This 2022 Momentum 376THS fifth-wheel toy hauler is fully operational. All mechanical, electrical, and plumbing systems are operational. Exterior surfaces are clean and free of dents, scratches, and Sun damage. The slide awnings and main awnings are new. The tires are original. The generator has 115 hours of operation. Interior cabinets, flooring, and appliances are clean and free of dents and scratches. Wear of interior surfaces is minimal. One recliner displays wear that has been covered by tape. Stock #435487 Well maintained one owner 2022 Grand Design Momentum 376THS! Whether you're searching for an RV as your next permanent home or your next home-on-the-road, this 2022 Momentum 376THS fifth wheel and toy hauler will meet and exceed your needs! Loaded with many options, this Momentum demonstrates the quality, durability, and style of Grand Design, one of the premier RV manufacturers today. This single-owner vehicle features a spacious front living area, central kitchen, and rear bedroom - plus the storage room at the rear. Added features include extra foam insulation, an onboard pancake compressor with hose, high-quality skirting, custom shelves, a water filtration system, a motorcycle wheel chock, and more! You get comfort in Grand Design RVs, and you'll notice this when you walk inside. The sofa and recliner in the front make for comfy TV viewing for the entire crew. There are also 300 watts of solar power onboard, a 2000-watt inverter, a 5.5kW generator, dual pane windows, and outside TV and speakers. This RV has the quality and price that can't be denied --- contact us today to schedule a showing and make this Momentum your next home! This listing is new to market. Any reasonable offer may be accepted. Submit an offer today! Reason for selling is upgrading to a larger rv. You have questions? We have answers. Call us at (941) 200-1353 to discuss this RV. Selling your RV has never been easier. At Pop RVs, we literally sell thousands of units every year all over the country. Call (855) 273-7188 and we'll get started selling your RV today. Reason for selling is upgrading to a larger rv.

2019 Grand Design Reflection 367bhs

2019 Grand Design Reflection 367bhs

$48,000

Litchfield Park, Arizona

Year 2019

Make Grand Design Reflection

Model 367bhs

Category Fifth Wheel

Length 36

Posted Over 1 Month

Stock #424750 Spacious Grand Design! Two bedroooms with a loft! Ready to hit the open road! 2019 Reflection 367BHS (by Grand Design) is a 5th wheel with a Bunkhouse and loft! Perfect for the larger families or those needing a base camp, this Reflection can sleep up to 12 people. Nice floor plan with a mid kitchen, living area towards the back, bunkhouse is on other side of kitchen, fully enclosed bathroom and master bedroom up front. The kitchen is equipped with stove/oven combo, side-by-side refrigerator, microwave, pantry, kitchen island and a dinette with chairs across from the island. Plenty of cabinets and countertop space. Large entertainment center with fireplace, sofa sleeper, stadium style recliners in living space, very comfortable. Master bedroom offers a Queen size bed, large closet and dresser. This listing is new to market. Any reasonable offer may be accepted. Submit an offer today! You have questions? We have answers. Call us at (941) 200-1353 to discuss this RV. Selling your RV has never been easier. At Pop RVs, we literally sell thousands of units every year all over the country. Call (855) 273-7188 and we'll get started selling your RV today.

2018 Grand Design Solitude 344GK

2018 Grand Design Solitude 344GK

$45,000

Prescott, Arizona

Year 2018

Make Grand Design Solitude

Model 344GK

Category Fifth Wheel

Length 34

Posted Over 1 Month

Per the seller, all systems function as they should. There is no evidence of leaks. This fifth wheel has been used and has traveled. There is normal wear and tear in the carpet and a few areas on the upholstery, as shown in the photos. The front awning shows wear at the top and likely will need replacing after one or two more seasons. The rear awning is in better shape but does have a few pinholes from the sun. The roof photos show some lap sealant cracking and some small patches. There are no observed signs of leaks. Two tires were replaced in 2023, and the other two in 2021. The two older tires show tread wear. We suggest that buyers have any used RV professionally inspected prior to purchase to be aware of what issues may need addressing. Stock #433110 Very nice Solitude, well cared for with all the extras needed for extended travel or living in. You may not notice all the touches, upgrades, and features that make this unit so unique and special. The residential Bosch dishwasher, reverse osmosis drinking water, and King size Sleep Number bed are just the tip of the iceberg. Winter weather (& Arizona summer) insulation, slide toppers, and vent covers are added features to make living easier and more comfortable. The stabilizing tripod is included as well. The seller is a professional electrician who went out with the solar package. He installed flexible panels over most of the available roof space to save on weight and prevent drilling holes in the roof. The output of these is 1,200 watts. They charge a bank of four 200 AH LiFePo4 batteries wired in series and connected to a 6,000-watt, 48-volt DC to 240-volt AC inverter. Add to that loads of inside and exterior storage, a built-in work desk, an 18 CF Norcold fridge, and two TVs, including a 50 smart TV in the living area, and you have an amazing home on wheels. This listing is new to market. Any reasonable offer may be accepted. Submit an offer today! Reason for selling is not using. You have questions? We have answers. Call us at (941) 200-1353 to discuss this RV. Selling your RV has never been easier. At Pop RVs, we literally sell thousands of units every year all over the country. Call (855) 273-7188 and we'll get started selling your RV today. Reason for selling is not using.

2023 Grand Design Imagine 2970RL

2023 Grand Design Imagine 2970RL

$52,300

Kirkland, Arizona

Year 2023

Make Grand Design Imagine

Model 2970RL

Category Travel Trailer

Length 29

Posted Over 1 Month

Per the seller, everything has been tested and works well. The 12-volt fridge was on and chilled for the photo session. The slides and awning functioned perfectly. Per the seller, the awnings had never been opened before. The tire date codes are 5222 and 0223, and they look new. The roof showed no wear, and the unit has been stored under cover in the carport, as shown in the photos. Stock #433282 2023 Grand Design Imagine 2970RL with two slide-outs! If you want a new travel trailer but want to pay for a used unit, this may be what you want. The first two owners NEVER used it! The first owner decided he wanted something else right after purchasing it and traded it in unused. The second buyer made improvements like the weight-distributing hitch, 6-volt golf cart batteries, and the included generator. Before they could use it, health issues required a change of plans that did not include RVing. Their loss can be your gain! As you walk in, it looks, feels, and smells new. There are no marks, scuffs, or evidence of anything being packed inside or out. The hitch was only used to test the installation. This is truly a special rig for someone looking to escape. The upgrades are done, so all you need are your camping gear and food. An added bonus is the generator shown in the photos. It can be purchased separately or possibly included with the right offer. It only has a few hours on it and is the quality RV'ers expect from Cummin Onan. This listing is new to market. Any reasonable offer may be accepted. Submit an offer today! Reason for selling is health reasons.. You have questions? We have answers. Call us at (941) 200-1353 to discuss this RV. Selling your RV has never been easier. At Pop RVs, we literally sell thousands of units every year all over the country. Call (855) 273-7188 and we'll get started selling your RV today. Reason for selling is health reasons..

2022 Grand Design Solitude 390RK

2022 Grand Design Solitude 390RK

$83,500

Queen Creek, Arizona

Year 2022

Make Grand Design Solitude

Model 390RK

Category Fifth Wheel

Length 39

Posted Over 1 Month

This 2022 Solitude (by Grand Design) 390RK is in great condition inside and out. The exterior looks fantastic, and there are no signs of dings, dents, or scratches. The Interior is gorgeous and perfect for full-time living. According to the seller, all systems and equipment operate as designed. Stock #405003 2022 Grand Design Solitude 390RK with five slide-outs! Tremendous opportunity to purchase this 2022 Solitude. Why pay new dealership prices when you can get this lightly used late model for less money? The 2022 Grand Design Solitude 390RK is a luxurious fifth-wheel RV designed for extended stays and full-time RV living. With its innovative rear kitchen layout, spacious interior, and high-end finishes, it offers a perfect blend of comfort and functionality. Measuring approximately 41 feet in length, this fifth wheel features five slide-outs, creating expansive living areas and providing all the conveniences of a home. A living room with dual opposing tri-fold sofas and a theater seating recliner offers plenty of relaxation or entertaining space. The entertainment center includes a large LED TV, a premium sound system, and an electric fireplace for a cozy ambiance. The rear kitchen design provides a dedicated cooking space separate from the living area. It features a residential-style layout with solid-surface countertops and a kitchen island with a large stainless steel sink. A residential refrigerator, convection microwave, oven, and a four-burner cooktop. Ample cabinetry, a pantry, and overhead storage for all your culinary needs. It features a breakfast bar in the kitchen overlooking the living area for convenient dining. A private master bedroom with a king-size bed, a wardrobe, and under-bed storage. A spa-like bathroom with a large walk-in shower featuring a built-in seat and skylight. A dual-sink vanity with ample counter space, a linen closet, and a porcelain toilet. Built with Grand Design's "Weather-Tek" insulation package, ensuring comfort in various climates. Includes a fully enclosed and heated underbelly for all-season use. Features an electric awning with integrated LED lighting, outdoor speakers, and exterior storage compartments for gear and essentials. Equipped with a 6-point hydraulic leveling system for quick and easy setup, dual 15,000 BTU air conditioners, and a high-capacity furnace for year-round comfort. The 2022 Grand Design Solitude 390RK redefines luxury in fifth wheels, offering a thoughtfully designed layout with top-of-the-line features for a true home-away-from-home experience. This RV delivers comfort, style, and reliability in every detail, perfect for extended vacations or full-time living. Don't miss this opportunity. Feel free to call, text, or email with your questions, to schedule an appointment to see it, or to make an offer. This listing is new to market. Any reasonable offer may be accepted. Submit an offer today! You have questions? We have answers. Call us at (941) 200-1353 to discuss this RV. Selling your RV has never been easier. At Pop RVs, we literally sell thousands of units every year all over the country. Call (855) 273-7188 and we'll get started selling your RV today.

2021 Grand Design Reflection 311BHS

2021 Grand Design Reflection 311BHS

$50,000

Phoenix, Arizona

Year 2021

Make Grand Design Reflection

Model 311BHS

Category Fifth Wheel

Length 31

Posted Over 1 Month

Stock #431390 Well maintained 2021 Grand Design Reflection 311BHS! Ready to hit the road! If you are in the market for a fifth wheel, look no further than this 2021 Reflection 311BHS, priced right at $50,000.This Fifth Wheel is located in Phoenix, Arizona and is in good condition. This is a brand new listing, just on the market this week. Please submit all reasonable offers. You have questions? We have answers. Call us at (941) 200-1353 to discuss this RV. Selling your RV has never been easier. At Pop RVs, we literally sell thousands of units every year all over the country. Call (855) 273-7188 and we'll get started selling your RV today.

2021 Grand Design Reflection 311BHS

2021 Grand Design Reflection 311BHS

$47,300

Phoenix, Arizona

Year 2021

Make Grand Design Reflection

Model 311BHS

Category Fifth Wheel

Length 31

Posted Over 1 Month

This 2021 Reflection 311BHS is in very good condition inside and out. The exterior shows no signs of dents, dings, or scratches, and the paint is in very good condition. The interior looks fantastic, and according to the seller, all systems and equipment operate as designed. Stock #431390 Well maintained 2021 Grand Design Reflection 311BHS! Ready to hit the road! Tremendous opportunity to purchase this 2021 Reflection in great condition. Why pay new dealership prices when you can get the late model 2021 for much less money? The 2021 Grand Design Reflection 311BHS is a high-quality fifth-wheel RV designed for families or groups seeking both comfort and functionality. Its spacious layout, luxury features, and ample storage make it perfect for extended trips or full-time RV living. Measuring approximately 36 feet in length, this model combines elegance and practicality. It sleeps up to 8 people comfortably and features a private master bedroom with a queen-size bed and storage. Includes a rear bunkhouse with multiple bunks, a convertible sofa, and its own half-bath. The bunkhouse offers a dedicated space for kids or guests, with entertainment hookups and additional storage. Open-concept living area with theater seating and a tri-fold sofa for relaxation. A dinette that converts to an additional sleeping area. It is fully equipped with a large refrigerator, three-burner stove, oven, microwave, and a deep sink with a high-rise faucet. Solid-surface countertops and a kitchen island provide ample prep space. There are also plenty of cabinets and a pantry for storage. The full bathroom has a large shower, vanity, and toilet, which is accessible from the main living area. A half-bath in the rear bunkhouse offers added convenience. Built with Grand Design's durable aluminum frame and laminated sidewalls, it features a heated and enclosed underbelly for all-season camping. Includes a large power awning with LED lighting, exterior speakers, and a rear ladder. Equipped with a OneControl touchscreen system for managing lighting, awnings, and more. Pre-wired for solar panels and backup cameras. Includes USB charging ports throughout the RV. Dual air conditioning units and a high-capacity furnace ensure comfort in any weather. There are ample fresh, grey, and black water tank capacities for extended stays. Pass-through storage compartments for gear. Outdoor kitchen with a mini-fridge, stovetop, and sink for outdoor cooking. The 2021 Grand Design Reflection 311BHS combines luxurious amenities with family-friendly functionality, making it ideal for exploring the great outdoors without sacrificing comfort. Don't miss this great opportunity. Feel free to call, text, or email with your questions, to schedule an appointment to see it, or to make an offer. This listing is new to market. Any reasonable offer may be accepted. Submit an offer today! You have questions? We have answers. Call us at (941) 200-1353 to discuss this RV. Selling your RV has never been easier. At Pop RVs, we literally sell thousands of units every year all over the country. Call (855) 273-7188 and we'll get started selling your RV today.

2022 Grand Design Solitude 380FL

2022 Grand Design Solitude 380FL

$75,500

Queen Creek, Arizona

Year 2022

Make Grand Design Solitude

Model 380FL

Category Fifth Wheel

Length 38

Posted Over 1 Month

This 2022 Solitude 380FL is in great condition except for a tree rub on the side of the fifth wheel, which is pretty hard to see unless you are looking for it. This Solitude has seen very little road time, and the interior is absolutely gorgeous--you would think it just came off the showroom floor. Stock #429454 Luxury Master Suite! 2022 Grand Design Solitude 380FL! This is a tremendous opportunity to purchase this 2022 Solitude (by Grand Design) 380 FL in impressive condition. It's barely been on the road and has been extremely well cared for. With five slide-outs, a front living room, and a large rear bedroom ensuite, this is a great fifth wheel for full-time living. The kitchen is also gorgeous, with stainless steel appliances, a large island, and a half bath adjacent to it. This Solitude is solar and generator prepped and there is one solar panel on the roof. This 380 FL model has tons of storage, way more than traditional 5th wheels. Don't miss this tremendous opportunity. Feel free to call, text, or email with your questions, to schedule an appointment to see it, or to make an offer. This listing is new to market. Any reasonable offer may be accepted. Submit an offer today! You have questions? We have answers. Call us at (941) 200-1353 to discuss this RV. Selling your RV has never been easier. At Pop RVs, we literally sell thousands of units every year all over the country. Call (855) 273-7188 and we'll get started selling your RV today.

2022 Grand Design Solitude 380FL-R

2022 Grand Design Solitude 380FL-R

$85,000

Fort Mohave, Arizona

Year 2022

Make Grand Design Solitude

Model 380FL-R

Category Fifth Wheel

Length 38

Posted Over 1 Month

There is a small rock chip on the paint. There is a small scuff in front of the bedroom steps. There are no signs of water intrusion and no major damages on this coach. The tires are dated 3521 and appear to be in good condition. The previous and current sellers have taken very good care of this Solitude. The paint and the awnings are in very good condition. Everything appears to be working as it should on this Solitude. Stock #427388 2022 Grand Design Solitude 380FL-R with five slide-outs! Step into unparalleled luxury with this 2022 Solitude 380FL-R by Grand Design, a top-tier fifth wheel designed for those who want to experience the open road without sacrificing comfort. Enjoy a spacious, elevated living area with theatre seating, dual tri-fold sofas, and an entertainment center with a fireplace and big-screen TV. The kitchen has residential-style appliances, including a full-sized refrigerator, a spacious pantry, and a kitchen island with solid-surface countertops. This beautiful coach has a phone app that allows you to open and close the slides easily. With a king-size bed, full-height wardrobe, and extra drawer space that offers comfort and convenience. The luxury continues with a spacious walk-in shower, double vanity sinks, and ample linen storage. Whether you're a weekend warrior or a full-time traveler, the Solitude 380FL-R provides all the comforts of home. This coach is always stored inside when not in use. This is a must-see Solitude if you're looking for a home away from home to travel in. This listing is new to market. Any reasonable offer may be accepted. Submit an offer today! Reason for selling is not using enough. You have questions? We have answers. Call us at (941) 200-1353 to discuss this RV. Selling your RV has never been easier. At Pop RVs, we literally sell thousands of units every year all over the country. Call (855) 273-7188 and we'll get started selling your RV today. Reason for selling is not using enough.